RE: You Loser
What exactly is your problem against the mormon church? You take the information you have in the wrong context. Get a life.
.... One thing I do know, whatever might have happened in the church when it was in its infancy, as you claim, it's not the same. We follow good doctrine, and teach to love one another. It feels right! And that's what it all comes down to: What Feels Right!
Another thing I do know, that you are doing Satan's work! You and the others are described in the scriptures. The ones who will mock and flatter, and lead many away from the truth with your deceptions. Even if you think that you're justified. Your clothes will be stained with their blood. If you have made covenants to the Lord, also, you will have your reward.
Were you one of those Nephite dissenters yourself?
RE: your stupid
I have been investigating the mormon church for some time now,My family is manly Jahovas. I know that all the false doctren is a lie. I have felt the spirit,I have a sure faith in the prophet Joseph Smith.
Have you lost your mind? I mean really.....look a the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints today. What do you see? A small gathering of people? Nope....don't think so. Over 10 million people. All cause of a small obscure Farm boy of 14 years old who had nothing to do with God? I don't think so. A third grade education and millions now follow the true and living Christ because he wasn't really a prophet? THink man think! How can it be?
No other explanation other than the fact that He WAS called of God and it was his duty to bring for Jesus Christ's true church out of obscurity and out of Darkness. If you don't pray about it...you'll never know. If you go about trying to kick down that which will never fall, you'll just end up selling yourself short, like you're doing now. Confussion is all about us in these latter days.....but it can be overcome. Come unto Christ guy!
BE baptized....repent of your wrong doings. You'll be blessed.
Look at the church from a different perspective. Study it as one truly seeking knowledge and not as one truly seeking to display his character or lack of the same by sharing slanderous information and mudslinging.
I really don't know why I am waisting my time writing you giving you the satisfaction that you are pleading for. Let me guess, someone offended you and it ruined your life??? Otherwise why would you spend so much of your valuable time creating a web page like this one??? You seem to know about the ceremony, I guess you worked in the LA Temple.... Just remember "God will not be mocked" Revenge is that of the Lord's, and you will get yours. I do not feal sorry for you!
Get a life and leave the Church of Jesus Christ alone. It makes me sad to think of all the people you may have led away from the truth of the Gospel.
P.S. Next time you talk to Satan tell him to go to ...... and stay there.
I recently visited your web site, and have found it very interesting.
I'm sure you have recieved many e-mail messages from devout Latter-Day Saints. To all of those messages, I will add my own. I will stand as a witness against the work of evil that you have attempted to spread throughout the world.
First of all, you must have too much time on your hands to spend so much time searching out so much information about Mormon polygamy. What has brought you to such a thing? Of all the things you could put on the internet for the good of humanity, you have wasted this gift of technology that God has placed on the earth. Even if it was true (which it is not) that Joseph Smith tried to decieve the members of the church about polygamy, it is nothing compared to the great good that he has spread throughout the world. We have contributed more good to this world than any other organized group of people that have ever lived. Why dwell on a few small & trivial things that many people don't and are not capable of understanding (like yourself), when there is so many positive and good things that could be spoken of. I am sure that many people at the time of Joseph did not know of the law of polygamy, because they were not ready to understand it. (like yourself) I have also reasearched many of the references you have included in your web site, and I challenge you to also include the church's explanations of these items. Then I think you could give a fair perspective to your readers.
Second, I urge you to pray and ask your Father in Heaven if what you are doing is right. Would Christ do this? I pray that you may repent, and God will have mercy on your soul.
I sure hope your a better Engineer than a historian. Your off more than plus or minus a little bit!!
lets keep the one liners out of your web sight, and put something in there with some consistancy. I have read both positive and negative comments. Most that are in your positive comments are from people who only care about the looks of the site not the attempt of this site. The church is true! It does'nt make problems go away, you look for answers through your true father. Your understanding of the church is way wrong! Have you been in the church and prayed to your heavenly father with all your heart? This is not something to spend your time on. The person who commented on the way we treat different people would'nt be so hard to judge then they would see that were not like that. I went to a church welfare food distributation, all kinds and types were there. We were all so different, but we all work together with understanding of each other. The true spirt is in your heart not in the way you interprate the words!!!
I would like to tell you that I am sincerly pleased with your work. I feel that you are helping my cause and could in fact be one orf my own workers. I appreciate your attempt to destroy the faith in God and Jesus Christ that these people posess. They become sceptics and may eventually be overcome in doubt and cease to practice those things that they now practice, such as morality. respect, wholesome treatment of their boddies, and the avoidance of deadly substance that destroy first the mind, then the body, followed by the individual, the family, society , and nations. I sincerly hope that many follow this path, and go in the direction that you are leading them.
I deeply appreciate your dedication to my cause. I hope that you countinue to destoy the souls of good men and countue to cause confusion and doubt. I might also add that I love the arguments that you present, because it requieres only the learning of men, which isn't acurate, but believable. This is prefered over other meathods which include prayer, meditation, faith, and sincerity.
May I end expressing my appriciation again to you and others of my faithful servants who have helped me do my work here on earth. Some of these include judas, Cain, the ancient Jews and Romans, but not to be excluded are the vast majority of the human race who aid in cutting down those with morals and beliefs which lead them to be successful husbands, wives, brothers, neighbors, citizens, and people who contribute many things to this corrupting society. Keep up the good work.I hope that I may see you here in my home someday, and that we may become the best of friends.
you need to get your facts straight. but it's a nice try!! who ya working for ? mankind? ya right!
I don't need to spend worthless time picking apart every detail of Church history to know if the church is true or not. I already know that it's true, and a silly page like this isn't going to change that. I only hope that one day you will realize what you are doing wrong and come back to the church--you obviously need it.
Rather than taking the considerable time needed to counter the many distortion presented throughout this web site, let me just point the reader (both LDS and non-LDS) to several anti-Christian, and anti-Religion sites. I think the reader will find the similarities between this and those sites to be uncanny, and the flaws in their respective arguments and approach will thereby be made apparent. (For additional comment on this point, please see my article at: http://www.aros.net/~wenglund/Anti.htm#similarities )
I just started reading your Kinderhook plates page. I should probably finish reading it, but wanted to drop you a note right away.
You mentioned that "Most Mormons will continue in ignorance because their church favors blind obedience". I'm 26 years old and have been a member most my life, except from the time I was 16 until I was 21. I have never felt that I was in ignorance, so I don't know how you can say that.
The "Mormon" church is true, so I should have nothing to fear. I have never been told not to read anti-mormon literature. Only that it's probably not a good idea.
Anyway, I know The Church of JESUS CHRIST is the true church of Jesus. Anything I read, ponder, and pray about will only strengthen my testimony.
Are you associated with Saints Alive or the Tanners?
I've been a memebr of the church for 9years, 3.5 of which i have been inactive. While pages like this help me to think a bit for myself, it troubles me that it has to be done this way. I am only more confused now than I ever was and I'm sure there are many like me out there. You say we shouldn't go round preaching on doorsteps, but as a user of the internet, i feel you are preaching on mine. If this is all researched fact, then keep up the good work - if not, may God be with us all.
Contention is of the devil. Therefore we cannot teach Christ's doctrine by contending one with another, nor can we be called by the name of Christ if we act as such. Christ himself taught that if a man smite thee on one cheek turn to him the other also. It saddens my heart to think of all time and effort spent trying to tear each others beliefs apart. If I think I know something to be true I will speak of my knowledge of the truth. I would not try to convert anyone to my beliefs by trying to destroy their beliefs. You do not punch someone in the eye out of love. MAY GOD BLESS THE PEACEABLE FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST.
The trouble with your reseach is that it is not a legal geneological proof. You have no record of any of these marriages being preformed in the Nauvoo Temple...or any other church facility or by a justice peace. I am a relation of Joseph Smith and have a list of all the wives sealed to him...in the Nauvoo Temple and other places...these are proven by more than a "journal" of a "family tradition" Many women were sealed to Joseph Smith after he was killed in 1844...Why? I don't know. The trouble with anti-mormon garbage is that it is not researched well and is a little bit of truth with a whole lot of lies....learn to do geneological reseach and how to document--you couldn't send any of this junk to the DAR!
in no way am i a GA, or worthy of translation, but i must say the Church is true. this is coming from a black american who has researched mostly every known controversial topic concerning the Church. if the church is not true, then what is true? if everything was false, including the Church, i would still use the church as my moral foundation. what other organization has produced so many good and decent citizens. my point is that you are doing everyone a disservice by pointing them away from something that is beneficial for the whole of society. of course this is my just my opinion, and i respect your right to your beliefs. i juts feel the church has a lot to offer, in this time of family and social turmoil.
HI, I HAVEN'T QUITE READ ALL YOU HAVE ON YOUR SITE, BUT PROBABLY ABOUT 85% OF IT. IT IS DISMAYING, HONESTLY, TO SEE THE FACTS LAID OUT AS YOU HAVE DONE, ONLY TO GET THE SENSE THAT YOU ARE DEFENDING MORMONISM. YOU APPEAR TO BE BIBLICALLY LITERATE, YET YOU DO NOT BRING IT OUT IN YOUR WRITINGS. IN YOUR ATTEMPT TO BE FAIR, AND PERHAPS RETAIN A BIT OF HOPE OF SALVATION FOR YOUR MORMON RELATIONS, YOU HAVE LEFT THE TRUE GOD OUT OF THE PICTURE AND PRESENTED ONLY THE MORMON GOD (SMALL "G")......
JAMES, DID YOU ACTUALLY CHANGE ONE 'CULT' FOR ANOTHER?
WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS/ ATTACKING A RELIGION THAT BELIEVES IN CHRIST. WHY MUST YOU PERSUCUTE US. WHY CANT YOU PEOPLE JUST LEAVE US ALONE I CANNOT BELEIVE THE THINGS I HAVE SEEN AND READ HOW CAN YOU CONDON A PRACTICE LIKE THE ONE YOU ARE DOING? PEOPLE LIKE YOU MAKE IT HARDER ON US AND GIVE US A BAD NAME. WHICH WE DO NOT DESERVE. WE TRY TO LOVE EVERYONE. I BEG YOU TO STOP PRINTING AND ADVERTISING THIS. YOU ARE WASTING MONEY ON TRING TO HURT OTHER PEOPLE WE A HAPPY AND YOU TRY TO DESTROY THIS WHY?
.... But "James," the only things I want to eliminate are you from the newsgroup and the test tube you came in on.
I am really offended by your web site. I know the Temple ceremony and you have purposely changed it to match some of the Masonic ritual. You Sir are a liar. #1 Joseph Smith was given the ceremony long before he was a mason. He was told that some of the rituals used by them were the same as the rite that was given him. So to find out he joined the masons. You have twisted this plain story into something false. Read Church History for crying out loud. #2 This temple rite is sacred to me and it offends me to know there are jerks like you who have no regard for someone elses beliefs. I am sure you would be one of the Mobbers who continually persercuted and Murdered the Saints back in the early days if you lived back at that time. Where do you get off treating something so dear as trash? I would never trample on your beliefs. That is what made this country great. Religious Freedom. To believe what we want with out Religious Bigots. Grow up and find something else to do with your life, like find a cure for cancer.
Your logic, "James," is one smacking of the old saw, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Alas, you and your ilk will be confounded at the last day when God Himself hands you some Bermuda shorts, where you're going.......
It is obvious whomever engineered your DNA was performing an experiment that sadly went awry.
Your questions are amusing however you seem to have the same problem as the writers of the "GOD Makers". Your answers are inacurate, provide no "scholarly researched" backing, and for the most part seem to be rehash of the same unproven and unsupported statements that the people who wish to tear down rather than build up have been circulating for over a hundred years. God loves you and will forgive your ignorance.
Really great page. I like how you use a lot of anti-LDS sources and how you twist church-written books to say what you think. I do that too. My boss will never know.
Satan, the master deceiver, works hard to pollute the truth. Don't you think he knows the Temple Ceremony? Don't you think he knew before the Church was restored what the Sacred Ordinances, Names, Signs, and Tokens, were? Don't you think he would cause them to be imitated by other groups, or organizations, in order to cast doubt in the minds of people seeking after the True Gospel of Christ? The similarities between LDS Temple Ceremony and Masonic Ritual is simply Satan trying to pollute the Truth, confuse the facts, and dissuade people from joining the Church, and partaking in those very same Ordinances that offer greater blessings, not only in this life, but in the life to come. Stand fast. The Truth will prevail in the end.
May our Heavenly Father forgive you.
My dear friend,
I regret to inform you that you may be in serious danger. I was shocked and dismayed to find that you had posted the LDS endowment in the internet. The Temple endowment is something that I hold very dear, and I would ask that you remove any references to it from your web page. I realize that for some reason unfathomable, you have some axe to grind with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. If this is the case, I am deeply sorry and hope that someday you will be able to reconcile your differences. In the meantime, I implore you as a respectable citizen, and one who wouldn't want his own beliefs (if any) to be publicly trashed throughout cyberspace, to remove the inacurate information from your website.
You know, I don't like the skinheads either, but I do not spend day and night creating a homepage about it!!!!
Your creating of the page just goes a long way to further strengthening my belief in the LDS church, opposition will ALWAYS follow the truth, it has been that way forever and will continue to be that may.
You, my friend, are fulfilling PROPHECY given to Joseph Smith!!
Thanks for the testominy builder.
I don't why I'm even bothering to write. You people look at history and try to judge it by todays standards. I only believe half of what is written and the other half doesn't matter. The church back at that time was going through some diffcult times for survival. What they said for the general membership was true what was stated. Most of the members would not have lived it at that time. But it had to be instituted, and it was. Go find someone else to study and be negitive with.
Why you get off trying to persuade others to think the way you want I don't know. I just know that I don't believe in many of the religions out there and with lots of people's personal beliefs but I don't go telling them what's wrong with them. I just tell them what I believe and refrain from tearing down their beliefs. You're only helping to make the Mormons stronger by fullfilling the prophecy of persecution.
GET A CLUE!!!
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHERE THE HELL YOU GOT THIS INFO?????? I AM A MORMON,AND ALTHOUGH I DO NOT FIND YOUR SO CALLED FACTS OFFENSIVE,I THINK YOU SHOULD DO SOME REAL STUDYING OF MORMONISM. YOU MAKE IT SOUND LIKE WE ARE ALL DEVIL WORSHIPPERS. LET ME TELL YOU,WE ARE FAR FROM THAT. ALL THE STATEMENTS YOU HAVE MADE ARE FALSE.I AM NOT SAYING THIS JUST BECAUSE I AM A MORMON,I HAPPEN TO BE INACTIVE, BUT I ALSO BELIEVE IN MANY OTHER RELIGIONS ALSO.SO IN CONCLUSION, PLEASE GET YOUR FACTS STRAGHT.
What anti-Mormon material are you getting this from? It is the same thing over and over and you feel you have been so deceived. What you have done is allowed the adversary to come and and confuse you. I knew something was up when I read the following:
"I will illustrate other information that just is not talked about openly in the LDS Church. I can recall a specific instance when I was admonished for attempting to talk about the historical account of Joseph Smith's death during a LDS Sunday School discussion of Doctrine and Covenants 135 --"
What exactly were you saying and how were you saying it? You didn't mention anything new to me. It really is common knowledge that Joseph had a pistol. I was taught that at BYU when I took Church History. I'm also a Gospel Doctrine teacher in my ward. I'm going over a bunch of things and will mention the above. I feel sorry for you because your writing gives the impression you are running around like a chicken that has just had its head cut off. Do you have a personal copy of the Kirtand Elders' Quorum Record? Is any of the things you mention original or is it all copied from other sources? Your Mason connection is true in some ways, but are you a Mason? Have you compared their ceremony word for word with that of the LDS Temple Endowment? If you have, then you know that they are two different things. Joseph even mentioned that they were close, but their ritual was completly apostate.
I feel that if you were a member of the Church, you didn't study very much like I have. It appears the anit's got a hold of you first and filled your head with a bunch of distorted info that, as I say again, is easy to learn about if you want to read about it. I'm sorry if this is rather offensive to you. I have dealt with many anti's and I still am. I am among a growing number of LDS members that are getting sick and tired of the same old stuff being recycled over and over and the tactics of anti's in shocking members with information they had not heard of yet by presenting it in a negative manner. I sugest you get out of the employ of the Devil and spend your time reading the Bible and Book of Mormon for uplifting things of the Spirit and not listening to the negative spirit of Devil who is just filling your soul with his bitterness. And I mean bitterness. You can never go back to neutral ground now. Either you are with the Devil and his Angels or you will listen to the men the Lord has chosen to run His Church upon the earth.
As your first note states, I don't usualy comment on anti-mormon web pages, as I find it a genral waste of time. You will continue to belive what you will believe, as will I.
The main reason I am commenting is two fold. The first, you seriously need to get a good html editor (Netscape Gold has one, Word Perfect7 is ok, or MS Front Page) as the lay out is dull and not very intresting. I almost surfed past your site simply on the grounds of astectics.
Second, drop the antoginist tone of your pages. It serves no real purpose, execpt to bring contention into the site. You will have more luck presenting your facts in an unbaised methode. A long these same lines, you need to update some of your facts and figures (the 8% intrest rate on your tithing page is way off......unless you are talking about already having some serious cash on hand to play the markets with....try a more reasonable 3.3% or even 4%....or let me know where you bank and get the 8%). There are others, more minor flaws that I am sure are due to you reciving skewed information than false assumptions on your part. One day, you may be called to carpet on these things, so you should make sure all of your facts are current and up-todate.
I usually do not respond to anti-mormons. I only scanned some of your material. Very crafty and intellently written. I bet you wouldn't want to find out and report any statistics on all of the good things the Mormon Church has done in this world. If you did one might wonder how your definition of our church could care so much about others. But, I guess its like being a Democrat or Replubican, your only going to convey a message you want others to believe. Its amazing how easy it is to take anything we want out of context. I feel threatened by your words and other anti-mormons. I feel that one day my life and the livies of my family and friends will be in danger because of the fear of men. The seeds of hate you plant will have an impact on others, but that's what you want. I hope that impact does not harm me and take away my rights in the future. But, it will, that the way these things work out in the long run. May peace be with you.
REPENT OR SUFFER THE WRATH OF GOD!
Read before you go off on your bitter tangent of destruction.
If any members of the Church come to your page, they'll just chuckle at it like I did, say to them selves, "Poor James - looks like the Tanner's duped another poor innocent" and then just go their way, solid in their testimony of the Restored Gospel. Others may look at it an have their testimony severely shaken, doubt the truthfullness of the Restored Gospel and search for those like you who have been con'ed by those like the Tanners and the other "Gainsayers" - they are those whom the Lord does not want in his fold. Remember the Protestant Pastor who, when meeting Joseph Smith in Nauvoo, said "Joe Smith, I bet I could take away 200 of your Mormon people" - to whit, Joseph Smith replied. "I know you could - those you can have, because they don't belong here!"
From your publications in the Website about Mormons, I gather that perhaps you once belonged to their Church and even that you were excommunicated for raising some of the issues presented in your publications, and now you are a resented ex-Mormon. Yes, I am a Mormon myself, and I was doing research in your Website about my Church, thinking that this was a pro-Mormon Internet site. I was surprised to find that it was the opposite. Although I respect other religions and beliefs, I am open for listening or reading about other Christian denominations. I only require a civilized level of discussion. What I wonder is why you have dedicated so much time of your life in trying to plant seeds of doubts or destroying our faith. Let's suppose that what you wrote is true, do you realize that there exist other religions which are pro-devil, and also organizations or groups that openly disseminate their wicked practices to destroy the week. I believe it would be more profitable for you to go after them, those who are really destroying the minds and souls of so many, instead of us, the Mormons. Why are we so important to you? ....
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